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The COVID-19 Science and Medicine Question Thread

70,573 views·762 replies·by Roccus7·First Post·Latest
Roccus7
Roccus7MODnoreaster.com2020#361

Decided to put this in this COVID thread instead of the other one. It just shows how data can be skewed to support whatever a person wants when they don't have proper controls in place, and more importantly, when a scientist comments the unspeakable crime of misrepresenting other groups' data, the scientific community will be relentless in taking the offender to task.

I have visited almost every major academic medical center in this country and IMHO the one that stands out above the other excellent institutions is Mayo Clinic. Nobody messes with their data without suffering the consequences...

Now please don't think I'm saying convalescent plasma is not effective for COVID-19, it is. We just don't know exactly how effective it is and how to best administer this treatment, items which Commissioner Hahn should have stated during the press conference instead of reading a script prepared by folks more suited to writing commercial advertisement copy. I do applaud him for owning up to his mistake instead of doubling down, which some folks feel is the proper way to respond to getting caught lying...

[SIZE=7]FDA chief apologizes for overstating benefits of virus plasma therapy[/SIZE]
[pressherald.com/2020/08/25/fda-commissioner-admits-he-overstated-benefits-of-virus-therapy/]('https://www.pressherald.com/2020/08/25/fda-commissioner-admits-he-overstated-benefits-of-virus-therapy/')

By DEB RIECHMANNAssociated PressAugust 25, 2020
WASHINGTON — Responding to an outcry from medical experts, Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Stephen Hahn on Tuesday apologized for overstating the life-saving benefits of treating COVID-19 patients with convalescent plasma.

Scientists and medical experts have been pushing back against the claims about the treatment since President Trump’s announcement on Sunday that the FDA had decided to issue emergency authorization for convalescent plasma, taken from patients who have recovered from the coronavirus and rich in disease-fighting antibodies.

Trump hailed the decision as a historic breakthrough even though the treatment’s value has not been established. The announcement on the eve of Trump’s Republican National Convention raised suspicions that it was politically motivated to offset critics of the president’s handling of the pandemic.

Hahn had echoed Trump in saying that 35 more people out of 100 would survive the coronavirus if they were treated with the plasma. That claim vastly overstated preliminary findings of Mayo Clinic observations.
[[IMG alt="Virus_Outbreak_Trump_50192"]https://multifiles.pressherald.com/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/Virus_Outbreak_Trump_50192.jpg[/IMG]]('')
President Trump listens as Dr. Stephen Hahn, commissioner of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, speaks during a media briefing in the James Brady Briefing Room of the White House on Sunday. Alex Brandon/Associated Press

Hahn’s mea culpa comes at a critical moment for the FDA which, under intense pressure from the White House, is responsible for deciding whether upcoming vaccines are safe and effective in preventing COVID-19.

The 35 percent figure drew condemnation from other scientists and some former FDA officials, who called on Hahn to correct the record.

“I have been criticized for remarks I made Sunday night about the benefits of convalescent plasma. The criticism is entirely justified. What I should have said better is that the data show a relative risk reduction not an absolute risk reduction,” Hahn tweeted.

The FDA made the decision based on data the Mayo Clinic collected from hospitals around the country that were using plasma on patients in wildly varying ways – and there was no comparison group of untreated patients, meaning no conclusions can be drawn about overall survival. People who received plasma with the highest levels of antibodies fared better than those given plasma with fewer antibodies, and those treated sooner after diagnosis fared better than those treated later.

Hahn and other Trump administration officials presented the difference as an absolute survival benefit, rather than a relative difference between two treatment groups. Former FDA officials said the misstatement was inexcusable, particularly for a cancer specialist like Hahn.

“It’s extraordinary to me that a person involved in clinical trials could make that mistake,” said Dr. Peter Lurie, a former FDA official under the Obama administration who now leads the nonprofit Center for Science in the Public Interest. “It’s mind-boggling.”

The 35 percent benefit was repeated by Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar at Sunday’s briefing and promoted on Twitter by the FDA’s communication staff. The number did not appear in FDA’s official letter justifying the emergency authorization.

Hahn has been working to bolster confidence in the agency’s scientific process, stating in interviews and articles that the FDA will only approve a vaccine that meets preset standards for safety and efficacy.

Lawrence Gostin of Georgetown University said Hahn’s performance Sunday undermined those efforts.
“I think the integrity of the FDA took a hit. If I were Stephen Hahn I would not have appeared at such a political show,” said Gostin, a public health attorney.

Hahn pushed back Tuesday morning against suggestions that the plasma announcement was timed to boost Trump ahead of the Republican convention.
“The professionals and the scientists at FDA independently made this decision, and I completely support them,” Hahn said, appearing on “CBS This Morning.”

Trump has recently accused some FDA staff, without evidence, of deliberately holding up new treatments “for political reasons.” And Trump’s chief of staff, Mark Meadows, said over the weekend that FDA scientists “need to feel the heat.”

The administration has sunk vast resources into the race for a vaccine, and Trump aides have been hoping that swift progress could help the president ahead of November’s election.

At Sunday’s briefing Hahn did not correct Trump’s description of the regulatory move as a “breakthrough.” He also did not contradict Trump’s unsupported claim of a “deep state” effort at the agency working to slow down approvals.

Former FDA officials said the political pressure and attacks against the FDA carry enormous risk of undermining trust in the agency just when it’s needed most. A vaccine will only be effective against the virus if it is widely taken by the U.S. population.

“I think the constant pressure, the name-calling, the perception that decisions are made under pressure is damaging,” said Dr. Jesse Goodman of Georgetown University, who previously served as FDA’s chief scientist. “We need the American people to have full confidence that medicines and vaccines are safe.”

Convalescent plasma is a century-old approach to treating the flu, measles and other viruses. But the evidence so far has not been conclusive about whether it works, when to administer it and what dose is needed.

The FDA emergency authorization is expected to increase its availability to additional hospitals. But more than 70,000 Americans have already received the therapy under FDA’s “expanded access” program. That program tracks patients’ response, but cannot prove whether the plasma played a role in their recovery.
Some scientists worry the broadened FDA access to the treatment will make it harder to complete studies of whether the treatment actually works. Those studies require randomizing patients to either receive plasma or a dummy infusion.

Associated Press writer Lauran Neergaard contributed to this report.

Shall I go to heaven or a-fishing? - H. D. Thoreau
Veni. Vidi. Cepi. - with apologies to Gaius Julius Caesar
AdmiralOriginal Crew21,717 postsSince 2018
jpd
jpdMODnoreaster.com2020#362

Interesting...bradykinin storm vs. cytokine storm

[URL unfurl="true"]https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63[/URL]

A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns- Mario Puzo
CommodoreOriginal Crew9,876 postsSince 2018
Capt13
Capt13FREE2020#363

Now that was a very interesting read !

“The greatest things ever done on earth have been done little by little"
CaptainOriginal Crew2,530 postsSince 2018
Roccus7
Roccus7MODnoreaster.com2020#364

From NPR this evening. It is very "normal" to halt vaccine clinical trials for adverse reactions. This reaction could be totally unrelated to the vaccine, but for the safety of ALL vaccine trial participants and future vaccine recipients it is critical to apply the brakes and figure out exactly what happened and why...

[SIZE=7]COVID-19 Vaccine Trial Paused, Due To Illness In One Volunteer[/SIZE]
September 8, 20207:17 PM ET
[[IMG alt="Joe Palca, photographed for NPR, 17 January 2019, in Washington DC."]https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2019/01/31/npr_64874306_sq-c0c0d04c2558b7ff409d475bde974ca938f966bc-s100-c85.jpg[/IMG]
JOE PALCA]('https://www.npr.org/people/2101004/joe-palca')
[Twitter]('https://www.twitter.com/joepalca')[Facebook]('https://www.facebook.com/joesbigidea')

Drug maker AstraZeneca has announced that it is pausing it's COVID-19 vaccine trial due to a "potentially unexplained illness" in one of the trial volunteers.

The vaccine was developed by the University of Oxford in partnership with Astra Zeneca. It's being studied in thousands of patients in the United States and the United Kingdom. The illness apparently occurred in a U.K. volunteer.

The company hasn't revealed the nature of the illness, but did confirm that a pause in vaccination will allow a safety review. "This is a routine action which has to happen whenever there is a potentially unexplained illness in one of the trials," an AstraZeneca spokesperson said in a statement to NPR.

The next step will be to determine if the illness is indeed related to the vaccine, or just a chance event.

The AstraZeneca/Oxford partnership is one of the vaccine development efforts that is furthest along. The company recently began a Phase 3 trial in the United States that aims to enroll 30,000 volunteers.

The vaccine is what's known as a non-replicating viral vector vaccine. When injected into a volunteer, it tricks that person's cells into making a protein from SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. That has the effect of prompting the vaccinated person to have an immune reaction that should be protective if the person were exposed to the coronavirus.
Article continues after sponsor message

In late July, [results of a preliminary safety and effectiveness study ]('https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31604-4/fulltext')found that more than two-thirds of the people who received the experimental vaccine reported fatigue and headache after inoculation. Muscle ache and fever were also common. But the researchers said that there were no "serious adverse reactions" among the more than 500 people vaccinated; most of the effects were "mild or moderate in severity."

In May, the Trump administration [awarded ]('https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/05/21/trump-administration-accelerates-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-to-be-available-beginning-in-october.html')the effort up to $1.2 billion from the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority as part of Operation Warp Speed, the administration's push to have a widely available coronavirus vaccine by January.

In a statement, AstraZeneca wrote that "In large trials illnesses will happen by chance but must be independently reviewed to check this carefully. We are working to expedite the review of the single event to minimize any potential impact on the trial timeline. We are committed to the safety of our participants and the highest standards of conduct in our trials."

The Astra Zeneca/Oxford vaccine candidate is one of nine that have either started or are about to start being tested in large numbers of volunteers around the world.

Shall I go to heaven or a-fishing? - H. D. Thoreau
Veni. Vidi. Cepi. - with apologies to Gaius Julius Caesar
AdmiralOriginal Crew21,717 postsSince 2018
D

Not sure if it's true or not but I was reading that researchers in Pittsburgh have developed a drug that neutralizes the corona virus. It's called AB-8.

"The deer hunter habitually watches the next bend; the duck hunter watches the skyline; the bird hunter watches the dog; and the non-hunter does not watch." Aldo Leopold
"Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing it is not the fish they are after." Henry David Thoreau
First MateOriginal Crew693 postsSince 2019
Capt13
Capt13FREE2020#366

AB-8 ........ on the news tonite as well.

“The greatest things ever done on earth have been done little by little"
CaptainOriginal Crew2,530 postsSince 2018
Roccus7
Roccus7MODnoreaster.com2020#367

Did not catch this, THANKS!!! It's very interesting and intriguing. Very promising data in rodents, let's see how it does in humans...

To put it simply, they took the binding part of a human antibody that binds to the COVID-19 virus, removed the non-binding parts and then reattached the parts of a human antibody that tell the rest of the immune system, "Houston, we've got a problem", to ensure a complete immune response is initiated. This "skinny" antibody means it diffuses faster (rates of diffusion direct related to molecular size) and has the potential for different modes of introduction like nasal spray, along with the classic injection.

[SIZE=7]Tiny Antibody Component Highly Effective Against COVID-19[/SIZE]

9/14/2020

PITTSBURGH – [University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine]('http://www.medschool.pitt.edu/') scientists have isolated the smallest biological molecule to date that completely and specifically neutralizes the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which is the cause of COVID-19. This antibody component, which is 10 times smaller than a full-sized antibody, has been used to construct a drug—known as Ab8—for potential use as a therapeutic and prophylactic against SARS-CoV-2.

The researchers report today in the journal [Cell]('https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)31148-X') that Ab8 is highly effective in preventing and treating SARS-CoV-2 infection in mice and hamsters. Its tiny size not only increases its potential for diffusion in tissues to better neutralize the virus, but also makes it possible to administer the drug by alternative routes, including inhalation. Importantly, it does not bind to human cells—a good sign that it won’t have negative side-effects in people.

Ab8 was evaluated in conjunction with scientists from the [University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill]('https://www.unc.edu/') (UNC) and [University of Texas Medical Branch]('https://www.utmb.edu/education') (UTMB) at Galveston, as well as the [University of British Columbia]('https://www.ubc.ca/') and [University of Saskatchewan]('https://www.usask.ca/').

“Ab8 not only has potential as therapy for COVID-19, but it also could be used to keep people from getting SARS-CoV-2 infections,” said co-author [John Mellors, M.D.]('https://publichealth.pitt.edu/home/directory/john-mellors'), chief of the Division of Infectious Diseases at [UPMC]('http://upmc.com/') and Pitt. “Antibodies of larger size have worked against other infectious diseases and have been well tolerated, giving us hope that it could be an effective treatment for patients with COVID-19 and for protection of those who have never had the infection and are not immune.”

The tiny antibody component is the variable, heavy chain (VH) domain of an immunoglobulin, which is a type of antibody found in the blood. It was found by “fishing” in a pool of more than 100 billion potential candidates using the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein as bait. Ab8 is created when the VH domain is fused to part of the immunoglobulin tail region, adding the immune functions of a full-size antibody without the bulk.

Like the Pitt and UPMC vaccine candidate [PittCoVacc]('https://www.upmc.com/media/news/040220-falo-gambotto-sars-cov2-vaccine') that delivers an immunization through a spiky Band-Aid-like patch and overcomes the need for needles and refrigeration, the researchers are “thinking outside the box” when it comes to how Ab8 could be administered. Its small size might allow it to be given as an inhaled drug or intradermally, rather than intravenously through an IV drip, like most monoclonal antibodies currently in development.

[Abound Bio]('https://enterprises.upmc.com/portfolio/abound-bio/'), a newly formed UPMC-backed company, has licensed Ab8 for worldwide development.

, senior author of the Cell publication and director of Pitt’s [Center for Antibody Therapeutics]('http://dom.pitt.edu/id/research/btresearch/catlab/'), was one of the first to discover neutralizing antibodies for the original SARS coronavirus in 2003. In the ensuing years, his team discovered potent antibodies against many other infectious diseases, including those caused by MERS-CoV, dengue, Hendra and Nipah viruses. The antibody against Hendra and Nipah viruses has been evaluated in humans and approved for clinical use on a compassionate basis in Australia.

Clinical trials are testing convalescent plasma—which contains antibodies from people who already had COVID-19—as a treatment for those battling the infection, but there isn’t enough plasma for those who might need it, and it isn’t proven to work.

That’s why Dimitrov and his team set out to isolate the gene for one or more antibodies that block the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which would allow for mass production. In February, Wei Li, Ph.D., assistant director of Pitt’s Center for Therapeutic Antibodies and co-lead author of the research, began sifting through large libraries of antibody components made using human blood samples and found multiple therapeutic antibody candidates, including Ab8, in record time.

Then a team at UTMB’s [Center for Biodefense and Emerging Diseases]('https://www.utmb.edu/cbeid') and [Galveston National Laboratory]('https://www.utmb.edu/gnl'), led by [Chien-Te Kent Tseng, Ph.D.]('https://microbiology.utmb.edu/faculty/chien-te-(kent)-tseng-phd'), tested Ab8 using live SARS-CoV-2 virus. At very low concentrations, Ab8 completely blocked the virus from entering cells. With those results in hand, [Ralph Baric, Ph.D.]('https://sph.unc.edu/adv_profile/ralph-s-baric-phd/'), and his UNC colleagues tested Ab8 at varying concentrations in mice using a modified version of SARS-CoV-2 . Even at the lowest dose, Ab8 decreased by 10-fold the amount of infectious virus in those mice compared to their untreated counterparts. Ab8 also was effective in treating and preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection in hamsters, as evaluated by [Darryl Falzarano, Ph.D.]('https://wcvm.usask.ca/departments/vetmicro/vetmicro-people/falzarano-darryl.php'), and colleagues at the [University of Saskatchewan]('https://www.usask.ca/'). [Sriram Subramaniam, Ph.D.]('https://biochem.ubc.ca/person/sriram-subramaniam/'), and his colleagues at the [University of British Columbia]('https://www.ubc.ca/') uncovered the unique way Ab8 neutralizes the virus so effectively by using sophisticated electron microscopic techniques.

“The COVID-19 pandemic is a global challenge facing humanity, but biomedical science and human ingenuity are likely to overcome it,” Mellors said. “We hope that the antibodies we have discovered will contribute to that triumph.”

Additional co-lead authors of this research are Xianglei Liu, M.D., Ph.D., of Pitt; Alexandra Schäfer, Ph.D., and David R. Martinez, Ph.D., both of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill; and Swarali S. Kulkarni, M.Sc., of the University of Saskatchewan. Additional authors are Chuan Chen, Ph.D., Zehua Sun, Ph.D., Liyoung Zhang, Ph.D., all of Pitt; Sarah R. Leist, Ph.D., of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill; Aleksandra Drelich, Ph.D., of the University of Texas Medical Branch; Marcin L. Ura, Ph.D., and Eric Peterson, M.S., both of Abound Bio; and Alison Berezuk, Ph.D., Sagar Chittori, Ph.D., Karoline Leopold, Ph.D., Dhiraj Mannar, B.Sc., Shanti S. Srivastava, Ph.D., and Xing Zhu, Ph.D., all of the University of British Columbia.

This research was funded by [National Institutes of Health]('http://www.nih.gov/') grants F32 AI152296, T32 AI007151, AI132178, AI108197 and P30CA016086, as well as UPMC; the [Burroughs Wellcome Fund]('https://www.bwfund.org/'); a [Canada Excellence Research Chair Award]('https://www.cerc.gc.ca/home-accueil-eng.aspx#:~:text=The%20Canada%20Excellence%20Research%20Chairs,research%20programs%20at%20Canadian%20universities.'); [Genome BC]('https://www.genomebc.ca/'), Canada; [Canadian Institutes for Health Research]('https://cihr-irsc.gc.ca/e/193.html'); and [Canadian Foundation for Innovation]('https://www.innovation.ca/').

Shall I go to heaven or a-fishing? - H. D. Thoreau
Veni. Vidi. Cepi. - with apologies to Gaius Julius Caesar
AdmiralOriginal Crew21,717 postsSince 2018
wader
waderFREE2020#368

R7 - what's your take on this [Chart]('https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/coronavirus/covid-19-in-virginia-locality/')?

This is my county. We seem to be getting through it.

"Well, it's alright.
.............even if you're old and gray."
"Well, it's alright.
............you still got something to say."
AdmiralOriginal Crew20,900 postsSince 2018
Roccus7
Roccus7MODnoreaster.com2020#369

R7 - what's your take on this [Chart]('https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/coronavirus/covid-19-in-virginia-locality/')?

This is my county. We seem to be getting through it.

Link only shows entire state, what County are you in?

Shall I go to heaven or a-fishing? - H. D. Thoreau
Veni. Vidi. Cepi. - with apologies to Gaius Julius Caesar
AdmiralOriginal Crew21,717 postsSince 2018
wader
waderFREE2020#370

Link only shows entire state, what County are you in?

Accomack - I had copied the link but I guess it reverts back to the whole state - I'll try a screen shotattachment 24800

Doesn't come out very clear - you might have to go to the site. Use the link I posted above.
Select Locality
Select Accomack

attachment-24800

"Well, it's alright.
.............even if you're old and gray."
"Well, it's alright.
............you still got something to say."
AdmiralOriginal Crew20,900 postsSince 2018
wader
waderFREE2020#371

attachment 24802

attachment 24803

attachment 24804

Think we have a handle on it?

attachment-24802
attachment-24803
attachment-24804

"Well, it's alright.
.............even if you're old and gray."
"Well, it's alright.
............you still got something to say."
AdmiralOriginal Crew20,900 postsSince 2018
movetheboat

Your will up to date?

CommodoreOriginal Crew12,530 postsSince 2018
WhatKnot
WhatKnotFREE2020#373

I’ve been seeing this product advertised on TV lately, to me it seems more like a COVID 19 ‘bucket’ than a shield. What’s your opinion R7?
attachment 24840

attachment-24840

Be Safe
CommodoreOriginal Crew12,915 postsSince 2019
Roccus7
Roccus7MODnoreaster.com2020#374

R7 - what's your take on this [Chart]('https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/coronavirus/covid-19-in-virginia-locality/')?

This is my county. We seem to be getting through it.

Sorry, just got around to this. I have to ask what's your intent of asking the question? If you're thinking these numbers are saying, "Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!" then I'd caution against it.

Yes, the daily cases look very nice, showing not much of a late summer surge like many areas in the rest of the country.
attachment 24836

However if you look at Hospitalizations, there is a pretty consistent run rate throughout the entire time span which isn't so good:
attachment 24837

And looking at deaths, it seems much more constant so I wouldn't be patting yourselves on your backs. It seems that the fatality of the infections there are pretty constant so the highest levels of caution need to be continued:
attachment 24838

Bottom line, IMO, if folks are looking at these data to say it's time to normalize things, that would be a grave mistake, something that's not limited to VA's Eastern Shore, but the entire country and even the world. World-wide when things have opened up, the chit has hit the fan, colleges shutting down within a few days of opening, schools doing the same, etc.

It's time for all of us to come to grips that masks, social distancing, superlative hygiene, avoiding crowds, avoiding travel, etc. ARE the NEW NORMAL until the time that an effective vaccine is available and widely used. It's something that none of us want to succumb to, but it's the harsh reality of dealing with an unyielding, deadly lest we succumb to the ravages of the virus.

attachment-24836
attachment-24837
attachment-24838

Shall I go to heaven or a-fishing? - H. D. Thoreau
Veni. Vidi. Cepi. - with apologies to Gaius Julius Caesar
AdmiralOriginal Crew21,717 postsSince 2018
Roccus7
Roccus7MODnoreaster.com2020#375

I’ve been seeing this product advertised on TV lately, to me it seems more like a COVID 19 ‘bucket’ than a shield. What’s your opinion R7?
attachment 24840

Not a fan. This configuration doesn't prevent the exit or entrance of airborne respiratory particles doing an end run and coming in/departing from the back. At least they get trapped in a mask.

Shall I go to heaven or a-fishing? - H. D. Thoreau
Veni. Vidi. Cepi. - with apologies to Gaius Julius Caesar
AdmiralOriginal Crew21,717 postsSince 2018
WhatKnot
WhatKnotFREE2020#376

Never consider it, it seem to me that air borne particles would drop right into it.

Be Safe
CommodoreOriginal Crew12,915 postsSince 2019
wader
waderFREE2020#377

Sorry, just got around to this. I have to ask what's your intent of asking the question? If you're thinking these numbers are saying, "Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!" then I'd caution against it.

Yes, the daily cases look very nice, showing not much of a late summer surge like many areas in the rest of the country.
attachment-24836

However if you look at Hospitalizations, there is a pretty consistent run rate throughout the entire time span which isn't so good:
attachment-24837

And looking at deaths, it seems much more constant so I wouldn't be patting yourselves on your backs. It seems that the fatality of the infections there are pretty constant so the highest levels of caution need to be continued:
attachment-24838

Bottom line, IMO, if folks are looking at these data to say it's time to normalize things, that would be a grave mistake, something that's not limited to VA's Eastern Shore, but the entire country and even the world. World-wide when things have opened up, the chit has hit the fan, colleges shutting down within a few days of opening, schools doing the same, etc.

It's time for all of us to come to grips that masks, social distancing, superlative hygiene, avoiding crowds, avoiding travel, etc. ARE the NEW NORMAL until the time that an effective vaccine is available and widely used. It's something that none of us want to succumb to, but it's the harsh reality of dealing with an unyielding, deadly lest we succumb to the ravages of the virus.

thanks for the input

No interest in running around like its "1999". I realize that's pending the outcome of a vaccine. Just was looking for your opinion as to me it looked pretty good & we may be working our way through it. We were a "hot spot" during early Spring. We were only 1 of a handful of counties in the Commonwealth that was not allowed to move to Phase 2 with the rest of the state. As I recall there were 3 or 4 counties that were prohibited to move to Phase 2 opening.

As a matter of fact the Governor had cleared us to move to Phase 2 but the county petitioned the Governor to leave us in Phase 1. This was because of the large number of cases vs. the population. We apparently were meeting the criteria to move to Phase 2 but the Governor didn't take into account the population (even though he was born & raised in Onancock so he should have been aware).

So we remained in Phase 1.

Presently you can not get into a public space without a mask. They are very strict on that even going so far as to telling people who got in with a mask & then proceeded to wear it improperly to wear it properly or leave the store. I have seen a couple of instances where people were being escorted out of the building.

I'm fine with that.

Just thinking they may be doing something right when we were so bad in the beginning & was looking for another opinion.

I myself do not intend to act like things are back to normal until such a time as a vaccine is available & we are given the all clear. I'm not travelling anywhere(even though it's now been a year since I got to see my daughter) other then for necessities & the occasional night out for a meal as all establishments are meeting the distancing protocols.

We(the family) were supposed to be spending a week in the Outer Banks the last week of August. I was the first to bail on that with most of my brothers following suit. Luckily my brother was able to get some major bucks back from the landlord for the 10 bedroom house he rented on the beach. The rent was north of $3000 for the week.

I've never had a flu shot nor have I ever had the flu. I will however be getting one this year & definitely getting a COVID vaccination when available.

Thanks for your read on the charts. VA updates them daily by 10 each morning.

"Well, it's alright.
.............even if you're old and gray."
"Well, it's alright.
............you still got something to say."
AdmiralOriginal Crew20,900 postsSince 2018
M
MacksFREE2020#378

Never consider it, it seem to me that air borne particles would drop right into it.

And they will also pass right thru a mask..

First MateOriginal Crew641 postsSince 2019
pequa1
pequa1MODnoreaster.com2020#379

thanks for the input

No interest in running around like its "1999". I realize that's pending the outcome of a vaccine. Just was looking for your opinion as to me it looked pretty good & we may be working our way through it. We were a "hot spot" during early Spring. We were only 1 of a handful of counties in the Commonwealth that was not allowed to move to Phase 2 with the rest of the state. As I recall there were 3 or 4 counties that were prohibited to move to Phase 2 opening.

As a matter of fact the Governor had cleared us to move to Phase 2 but the county petitioned the Governor to leave us in Phase 1. This was because of the large number of cases vs. the population. We apparently were meeting the criteria to move to Phase 2 but the Governor didn't take into account the population (even though he was born & raised in Onancock so he should have been aware).

So we remained in Phase 1.

Presently you can not get into a public space without a mask. They are very strict on that even going so far as to telling people who got in with a mask & then proceeded to wear it improperly to wear it properly or leave the store. I have seen a couple of instances where people were being escorted out of the building.

I'm fine with that.

Just thinking they may be doing something right when we were so bad in the beginning & was looking for another opinion.

I myself do not intend to act like things are back to normal until such a time as a vaccine is available & we are given the all clear. I'm not travelling anywhere(even though it's now been a year since I got to see my daughter) other then for necessities & the occasional night out for a meal as all establishments are meeting the distancing protocols.

We(the family) were supposed to be spending a week in the Outer Banks the last week of August. I was the first to bail on that with most of my brothers following suit. Luckily my brother was able to get some major bucks back from the landlord for the 10 bedroom house he rented on the beach. The rent was north of $3000 for the week.

I've never had a flu shot nor have I ever had the flu. I will however be getting one this year & definitely getting a COVID vaccination when available.

Thanks for your read on the charts. VA updates them daily by 10 each morning.

Until 1999 or so never got a flu shot either. Then I got the flu. Have gotten 21 flu shots since.

Every day is Saturday.
CommodoreOriginal Crew7,034 postsSince 2018
Roccus7
Roccus7MODnoreaster.com2020#380

Never thought that vaccine manufacturers would consider -80°C shipping conditions as an acceptable shipping and storage condition, BUT looks like they have.

From a person who was plagued with receiving materials at said conditions and storing many key reagents at those temps, trust me, this is a HUGE logistical challenge, especially when you're talking about 100s of millions of vaccines for the US, and the billions needed for world-wide inoculations. Trust me, nobody in the Amazon basin has ultrafreezers capable for said storage.

From today's NY Times...

[SIZE=7]How to Ship a Vaccine at –80°C, and Other Obstacles in the Covid Fight[/SIZE]

Developing an effective vaccine is the first step. Then comes the question of how to deliver hundreds of millions of doses that may need to be kept at arctic temperatures.

Many things will have to work out to end the coronavirus pandemic. Drug companies will have to develop a safe and effective vaccine. Billions of people will have to consent to vaccination.

But there are [more prosaic]('https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/01/health/coronavirus-vaccine-supplies.html') challenges, too. Among them: Companies may have to transport tiny glass vials thousands of miles while keeping them as cold as the South Pole in the depths of winter.

A number of the leading Covid-19 [vaccines]('https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html') under development will need to be kept at temperatures as low as minus 80 degrees Celsius (minus 112 degrees Fahrenheit) from the moment they are bottled to the time they are ready to be injected into patients’ arms.

That will not be easy. Vaccines may be manufactured on one continent and shipped to another. They will go from logistics hub to logistics hub before ending up at the hospitals and other facilities that will administer them.

While no vaccine has yet been approved by health officials in the United States, preparations for a mass-vaccination campaign are [gearing up]('https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/health/covid-19-vaccine-cdc-plans.html'). The U.S. military and a federal contractor are expected to play a role in coordinating the distribution. But a hodgepodge of companies are scrambling to figure out how to keep hundreds of millions of doses of a vaccine very, very cold.

Planes, trucks and warehouses will need to be outfitted with freezers. Glass vials will need to withstand icy climes. Someone will need to make a lot more dry ice.

“We’re only now beginning to understand the complexities of the delivery side of all of this,” said J. Stephen Morrison, senior vice president at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a research firm. “And there’s no getting around it. These have stark temperature demands that will constrain access and delivery.”

President Trump on Friday asserted that hundreds of millions of doses of an unidentified vaccine will be available to all Americans by April. That timeline is more ambitious than what his own advisers have described. Dr. Robert R. Redfield, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, told a Senate committee on Wednesday that a vaccine would not be widely available until the middle of next year.

Of the three vaccines that have advanced to Phase 3 trials, two — one made by [Moderna]('https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/28/health/coronavirus-moderna-vaccine-monkeys.html') and the National Institutes of Health, the other by [Pfizer]('https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/27/health/moderna-vaccine-covid.html') and BioNTech — need to be kept in a near constant deep freeze. (They are made with genetic materials that fall apart when they thaw.) Another leading vaccine candidate, being developed by [AstraZeneca]('https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/12/health/astrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-resumes.html') and Oxford University, must be kept cool but not frozen.

McKesson, a major drug distributor, won a major federal contract last month to help distribute a coronavirus vaccine. Much of the work, however, will fall to companies outside the medical and drug industries. The major U.S. logistics companies, including UPS and FedEx, already have networks of freezers that they use to ship perishable food and medical supplies. The companies have experience shipping vaccines for other illnesses, including the seasonal flu.

But the Covid-19 [vaccination effort]('https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-anti-vaccine.html') is likely to dwarf all previous campaigns.

UPS said it was constructing a so-called freezer farm in Louisville, Ky., the company’s largest hub, where it can store millions of doses at subzero temperatures.

Creating an entire warehouse that could maintain that deep freeze would have been too complex and costly. So instead, rows of upright industrial Stirling Ultracold freezers, each capable of holding 48,000 vials, are being arranged inside a warehouse. There are 70 freezers so far, but the warehouse could fit a few hundred. A similar UPS center is in the works in the Netherlands.

“I haven’t seen anything like this before,” said Wes Wheeler, UPS’s head of health care. “Nothing has been quite this global in scale.”

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AdmiralOriginal Crew21,717 postsSince 2018

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