The COVID-19 Science and Medicine Question Thread

[USER=489]@WhatKnot[/USER] - The 95% number means that only 5 folks out of 100 vaccinated ones will get a COVID-19 infection. Of those 5 sick folks, according to all data to date, NONE will be hospitalized or die.

Those were not rambling questions but actually GREAT ones that everyone should be asking!

Roccus7 hit the nail on the head with his response.

I wish it was explained to more people as well as the differences with the vaccines. Alot of misinformation out there ESPECIALLY in lower income communities.

Left on my wife’s windshield yesterday

Left on my wife’s windshield yesterday

In general some true statements, but the devil is in the details.

#1 - I'll break them out.
[LIST]
[*]True enough, but this technology has been used in animals for a good 10 - 15 years
[*]The only true concern is autoimmune reactions, something that ALL vaccines have, the rest are BS
[*]Yup, this is Moderna's first commercial product, got to start somewhere and for all intents and purposes, Moderna = Pfizer
[/LIST]
#2 - Generally true, but a lot of "We don't know yet" here. SARS is a coronavirus and developed vaccines were never deployed because the virus disappeared. Same for the longevity of the COVID-19 vaccine immunity, we just don't know. The vaccines completed clinical studies in late 2020 and the persistence of immunity is a "real time" event so as I type this, we only 4 or so months of data. Hopefully we'll be lucky and it is longer lasting than a few months. Right now it seems to be because the re-infection rate of people who have had one bout with the disease is quite low.

#3 - Disgruntled malpractice lawyers wrote this. Yes, EUA does limit the liability of a company, but the PREP Act does provide compensation at a fixed price, just not at the millions of dollars the lawyers would like.

#4 - First point is the only true statement in the lot. Yes, things were "rushed", but not as a way to circumvent safety. The key steps, usually run in series, e.g. you don't do step 2 until step 1 is run and completed, the steps were run in parallel where appropriate. This saved precious time. However, the clinical trials of the vaccines, run on humans, were just as extensive as other vaccines, and the observed adverse reactions have been as few, if not fewer, than any normal vaccine. Subsequently, very few, but some, medical professionals have expressed significant concern about the safety and most of these concerns were voiced BEFORE the completion of the clinical trials, which alleviated the concern of most.

If a company had tested a similar vaccine in animals, yes they could skip this step with the COVID vaccine. Now we're talking EXTREME similarity. For example in the J&J vaccine, which uses a technology used in other vaccines, their COVID-19 vaccine's only difference with others of their vaccine on the market, is the substitution of DNA that encodes for the COVID spike protein. A difference of a few nucleic acids in a complex milieu of a vaccine is truly trivial, and animal testing data from other, identical vaccines with the exception of the nucleotide substitution, is no biggie in my scientific opinion, something I have done and proved to FDA on many occasions. FYI, the yearly flu vaccine doesn't even repeat human clinical trials. The only thing that's done is that they choose the viral strains that they'll use and plop them into the "Gold Standard" vaccine mix.

#5 is funny, the lawyers at work again. Name me a single major pharma company that hasn't been convicted of a malpractice and medical fraud charge. What's interesting with this one, is the fact that Moderna "charges" never use the adjective "medical". Sure, start up companies often "embellish" their financials to help increase investment and I'm sure Moderna has had these types of charges, but totally irrelevant to this point.

Just do it; it’s the best alternative that is available.

I have heard that the J&J vaccine is now also a two stage vaccine.

People receiving it are now being told to return for second shot and maybe another in 14 months.

?

I have heard that the J&J vaccine is now also a two stage vaccine.

People receiving it are now being told to return for second shot and maybe another in 14 months.

?

Only thing I found Jack was a Nov, 2020 news blurb that J&J was considering running an adjunct clinical study with a second shot 57 days after the initial one as a hedge if the single shot strategy didn't work. Other than that, there's nothing out there I can find, and I don't think they filed these data with their EUA.

As far as "more shots", I think this will be something in our future, although I hope it won't be. Right now the 3 vaccines are very effective against all variant strains with one exception; they seem not to be as effective with the Brazilian strain as they are with all the other variants. Similarly with everything flying around here, time will tell and we'll continue to learn new things and relearn old things, and how new data may flip things 180° tomorrow from what we understand today.

Per the note on the windshield:

#1 - FALSE. mRNA technology has been around for quite some time and has always been looked at as the next generation technology for vaccines. Covid-19 sped things up.

mRNA focuses on a specific protein. DOES NOT ALTER OR OTHERWISE AFFECT DNA.

#2 thru #5 is all speculation. There IS alot we do not know about these vaccines.

BUT

We do know that Covid-19 is real. We do know that Covid-19 can kill you. We do know that Covid-19 can leave you with lifelong issues.

It comes down to RISK/REWARD................How much are you risking by taking the vaccine vs how much you are risking NOT taking it and getting infected.

I will admit that back in November, I was sceptical of the vaccine. I wasnt planning on getting it. Reading the trial data convinced me otherwise......

If someone gets tested for anti bodies and are negative does that mean they never had corona?

If someone gets tested for anti bodies and are negative does that mean they never had corona?

In all probability, yes, the person never had an infection that was strong enough to mount an immune response.

In all probability, yes, the person never had an infection that was strong enough to mount an immune response.

Thank you Sir

As the data come in, the efficacy and potency of the vaccines continues to be shown. There are still many more real time studies to be completed, but these data demonstrate that the vaccines are truly home runs.

The higher and faster we get shots in arms, the better we can keep ahead of the virus' mutations. We're already starting to see mutation mutations, ah the "joys" of viral science...

[HEADING=2]The Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines are very effective in real-world conditions at preventing infections, the C.D.C. reported.[/HEADING]

A mass vaccination site at the Kentucky State Fair and Exposition Center in Louisville this month. Credit...Jon Cherry for The New York Times

The coronavirus vaccines made by Moderna and [Pfizer-BioNTech]('https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/31/health/pfizer-biontech-vaccine-adolescents.html') [are proving highly effective]('https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7013e3.htm?s_cid=mm7013e3_w') at preventing symptomatic and asymptomatic infections under real-world conditions, federal health researchers reported on Monday.

Consistent with clinical trial data, a two-dose regimen prevented 90 percent of infections by two weeks after the second shot. One dose prevented 80 percent of infections by two weeks after vaccination.

The news arrives even as the nation rapidly broadens eligibility for vaccines, and the average number of daily shots continues to rise. The seven-day average of vaccines administered [hit 2.76 million on Monday]('https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html'), an increase over the pace the previous week, according to the [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention]('https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/travel/cdc-vaccinated-travel.html').

But the virus may be gaining renewed momentum. [According to a New York Times database]('https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html'), the seven-day average of new virus cases as of Sunday was 63,000, an increase of more than 16 percent over the past two weeks.

Similar upticks over the summer and winter led to major surges in the spread of disease, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said at a news briefing on Monday. She said she had a sense of “impending doom” about a possible fourth surge of the virus.

The nation has “so much reason for hope,” she said. “But right now I’m scared.”

Scientists have debated whether vaccinated people may still get asymptomatic infections and transmit the virus to others. The new study, by researchers at the C.D.C., suggested that since infections were so rare, transmission was likely rare, too.

There also has been concern that variants may render the vaccines less effective. The study’s results do not confirm that fear. Troubling variants were circulating during the time of the study — from Dec. 14, 2020, to March 13, 2021 — yet the vaccines still provided powerful protection.

The C.D.C. enrolled 3,950 people at high risk of being exposed to the virus because they were health care workers, first responders or others on the front lines. None had previously been infected.

Most participants — 62.8 percent — received both shots of the vaccine during the study period, and 12.1 percent had one shot. They collected their own nasal swabs each week, which were sent to a central location for P.C.R. testing, the most accurate type of test. The weekly swabs allowed the researchers to detect asymptomatic infections as well as symptomatic ones.

The investigators asked participants about symptoms associated with infection, including fever, chills, cough, shortness of breath, sore throat, diarrhea, muscle aches, or loss of smell or taste. They also analyzed patients’ medical records to detect illnesses.

Fifty-eight percent of the infections were detected before people had symptoms. Just 10.2 percent of infected people never developed symptoms.

Among those who were fully vaccinated, there were .04 infections per 1,000 person-days, meaning that among 1,000 persons there would be .04 infections in a day.

There were 0.19 infections per 1,000 person-days among those who had had one dose of the vaccine. In contrast, there were 1.38 infections per 1,000 person-days in unvaccinated people.

Dr. Walensky urged Americans to continue taking precautions and to waste no time getting the shots as soon as they are eligible.

“I am asking you to just hold on a little longer, to get vaccinated when you can, so that all of those people that we all love will still be here when this pandemic ends,” she said.

My wife and I were in a group of 7 yesterday, one was an infant, only one person was vaccinated.

Woke this morning to an early phone call by one of our hosts informing us her husband was ill through the evening with tempature and other symtoms, he was out getting tested. Rapid test was neg but they wanted to do the other test and have him and us quarantine until results Tues or Wed. They also canceled his appointment for vacinne shot scheduled for today.

? If his main test comes back positive, guidelines suggest we then should also quarantine for ten days.......

Do we cancel our appointments for vaccine that would be in that 10 day quarantine or does getting the shot Trump that? ( no pun intended but i did enjoy that word fitting in perfectly).

I thing if he comes back positive, we must quarantine and reschedule....correct?

My wife and I were in a group of 7 yesterday, one was an infant, only one person was vaccinated.

Woke this morning to an early phone call by one of our hosts informing us her husband was ill through the evening with tempature and other symtoms, he was out getting tested. Rapid test was neg but they wanted to do the other test and have him and us quarantine until results Tues or Wed. They also canceled his appointment for vacinne shot scheduled for today.

? If his main test comes back positive, guidelines suggest we then should also quarantine for ten days.......

Do we cancel our appointments for vaccine that would be in that 10 day quarantine or does getting the shot Trump that? ( no pun intended but i did enjoy that word fitting in perfectly).

I thing if he comes back positive, we must quarantine and reschedule....correct?

you're doctor will tell you that but I suspect yes - it's one of the questions you have to answer before going in for the shot

you're doctor will tell you that but I suspect yes - it's one of the questions you have to answer before going in for the shot

We actually right now are following CDC guidelines and as you mention called in to our DR. for her thoughts.

Sorry to hear that..........Your doctor should alway be the first phone call.

.

[USER=489]@WhatKnot[/USER] - The 95% number means that only 5 folks out of 100 vaccinated ones will get a COVID-19 infection. Of those 5 sick folks, according to all data to date, NONE will be hospitalized or die.

I don't think that's accurate.
E.g., according to livescience.com:
"What the 95% actually means is that vaccinated people had a 95% lower risk of getting COVID-19 compared with the control group participants, who weren't vaccinated. In other words, vaccinated people in the Pfizer clinical trial were 20 times less likely than the control group to get COVID-19. "

Let's assume that in the general population, or more accurately, a control group that got a placebo shot, out of 10,000 people, 100 got covid-19 in a 3 month period.
95% effective means that of 10,000 getting the vaccine, only 5 will get the disease in the same amount of time, corrected for fluctuating infection rates.
that's why it took so long in the beginning to assess efficacy, until infection rates increased.
No?

My son just got home from school after the week long Spring break.
He says all sorts of kids are now in quarantine, all related to school sports teams. The entire HS soccer team, a chunk of the football team etc. As we all know, lots of kids involved in many activities. Kids in sports mingle with kids in the band, clubs, etc. Seems like the way they have classrooms set up are the safest place.....

My wife and I were in a group of 7 yesterday, one was an infant, only one person was vaccinated.

Woke this morning to an early phone call by one of our hosts informing us her husband was ill through the evening with tempature and other symtoms, he was out getting tested. Rapid test was neg but they wanted to do the other test and have him and us quarantine until results Tues or Wed. They also canceled his appointment for vacinne shot scheduled for today.

? If his main test comes back positive, guidelines suggest we then should also quarantine for ten days.......

Do we cancel our appointments for vaccine that would be in that 10 day quarantine or does getting the shot Trump that? ( no pun intended but i did enjoy that word fitting in perfectly).

I thing if he comes back positive, we must quarantine and reschedule....correct?

That just goes to show how this whole mess is not over and even hanging out with close friends you "trust" doesn't even work.
Hope it all works out for you and your friends

I don't think that's accurate.
E.g., according to livescience.com:
"What the 95% actually means is that vaccinated people had a 95% lower risk of getting COVID-19 compared with the control group participants, who weren't vaccinated. In other words, vaccinated people in the Pfizer clinical trial were 20 times less likely than the control group to get COVID-19. "

Let's assume that in the general population, or more accurately, a control group that got a placebo shot, out of 10,000 people, 100 got covid-19 in a 3 month period.
95% effective means that of 10,000 getting the vaccine, only 5 will get the disease in the same amount of time, corrected for fluctuating infection rates.
that's why it took so long in the beginning to assess efficacy, until infection rates increased.
No?

Yes, thanks for keeping me in line. I was over simplifying to keep it easy and didn't normalize for the control group.