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And so it begins in earnest. Large scale wind projects in the North East!!

14,374 views·108 replies·by Roccus7·First Post·Latest
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What I'm suggesting is we are decades away from perfecting anything that will take the place of fossil fuels. I totally disagree with the industry facing their Kodak moment. These windmills will never make enough power to make a dent in that industry. And please don't tell me about the rest of the world. If we were to cut all of our emissions tomorrow it would only be 15% of total world emissions. As for the petroleum industry, I'm thinking their Kodak moment should have come when nuclear energy was introduced. For the record, I have always owned by own business, and I'm very familiar with the history of Kodak.

These fossil fuel companies are in it because the windmills simply can't produce enough power alone.

I'm all for renewals, and I'm not suggesting that liberals care for the environment more than conservatives. As I believe it's the other way around. But that's another story. But I don't buy the "good jobs" BS any more than I did when Obama said it. Remember Solyndra? Good luck getting a "good-paying job" there.

Another point no one mentions is the fact that they have a life expectancy of 15-20 years. And it's very expensive and in most cases impossible to dump them.

“The blades are kind of a dud because they have no value,” he said.

Decommissioned blades are also notoriously difficult and expensive to transport. They can be anywhere from 100 to 300 feet long and need to be cut up on-site before getting trucked away on specialized equipment—which costs money—to the landfill. Once there the size of the blades can put landfills in a tough spot.

“If you’re small utility or municipality and all of a sudden hundreds of blades start coming to your landfill, you don’t want to use up your capacity for your local municipal trash for wind turbine blades,” he said, adding that permits for more landfill space add another layer of expenses.

So in our case, they have decided that it will cost too much to decommission them so we are going to leave them littering the ocean. Is this good for the environment? There are hundreds of acres set aside for these monstrosities with the very real possibilities of it being expanded anytime the Gov't wants

Also, I'm curious what's going to power our airplanes, cruise lines, and much other heavy equipment? Should we put a giant rubber band on the front of an airplane and wind it up?

We both agree that something needs to be done, I just don't agree with this. And when you look real close at how this is being done ie: The staging for this project is coming out of Port Jefferson, and they're running all the way off the RI coast? Why not Montauk? Could it be that they don't want the noise and mess in Montauk? Or would they rather run the equipment an extra 30 miles or so?

I have tried numerous times to get them on a podcast yet no one will go on the record giving us a good explanation of the details. And as we know that's where the devil is 🙂

You missed a few points there George - the point about the rest of the world wasn't with regards to carbon emissions, it was in regards to building out the manufacturing and technical expertise around renewable energy. We're already lagging - if we fall further behind, well - at some point, you can forget about being the world's #1 superpower and start aiming for 3rd or 4th. It's the same reason we got into the space race (hint: it wasn't about going to the moon).

And if you think the fossil fuel companies investing in these companies is about anything but fear of obsolescence and diversification, you're kidding yourself. No, renewable energy isn't at the point where it's capable of taking over the majority of power demand. Ask yourself - did China deploy nearly 900GW of renewable energy generation last year because they're environmentally conscious? Or was it because they wanted to reduce their dependency on oil (as a strategic and military objective) and because they wanted to get a jump on the manufacturing and engineering base for these products? The companies investing here are playing the long game - they're not expecting a payoff in 3-5 years, they're expecting to build equity stakes in companies that will develop into the large scale producers of 20-30 years from now.

As for the silly references to 'what's going to power our heavy equipment' - I don't recall anyone saying we should immediately shutter gas stations or oil refineries. The goal is longer term, to build up the country's capabilities so we don't fall behind the rest of the world, and to reduce dependency on a finite resource that often requires dependencies on foreign adversaries.
MateOriginal Crew85 postsSince 2019
jpd
jpdMODnoreaster.com2021#42
The companies investing here are playing the long game - they're not expecting a payoff in 3-5 years, they're expecting to build equity stakes in companies that will develop into the large scale producers of 20-30 years from now.

I personally would like to see all this happen without tax subsidies, none of those companies would be investing without handouts from the government since they are not economically feasible on their own.
A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns- Mario Puzo
CommodoreOriginal Crew9,876 postsSince 2018
F
I personally would like to see all this happen without tax subsidies, none of those companies would be investing without handouts from the government since they are not economically feasible on their own.
Did you feel the same about the petroleum and coal industries? Because those guys get a ton of subsidies despite the fact that they're both long beyond the early adoption scale. And that's without getting into the number of wars and conflicts we've gotten into trying to stabilize regions known for their oil production and what it's cost us in terms of both spending and human capital.
MateOriginal Crew85 postsSince 2019
jpd
jpdMODnoreaster.com2021#44
Did you feel the same about the petroleum and coal industries? Because those guys get a ton of subsidies despite the fact that they're both long beyond the early adoption scale. And that's without getting into the number of wars and conflicts we've gotten into trying to stabilize regions known for their oil production and what it's cost us in terms of both spending and human capital.

No I don't, because I can fill up my car in 5 minutes and drive almost 600 miles without stopping if I wanted to.
A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns- Mario Puzo
CommodoreOriginal Crew9,876 postsSince 2018
george
georgeADMINnoreaster.com2021#45
I would love to keep this going but it's apparent there is no end @Fishing Nerd . There are so many questions you refuse to address ie: What effect will digging up the bottom do to the environment? What to do with decommissioning and how many will there be? To name just a few. And this is America, and I don't trust or care what other countries claim.

I get both sides, and some straight answers from officials would certainly help.
George R. Scocca
george@nyangler.com
www.nyangler.com - Your Secret Spot Online !
CommodoreOriginal Crew5,174 postsSince 2018
jpd
jpdMODnoreaster.com2021#46
Yes, unfortunately we should close this thread. It's almost like a religion.
A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns- Mario Puzo
CommodoreOriginal Crew9,876 postsSince 2018
Avenger
Avengernoreaster.com2021#47
Parrots greenie mantra about world will end if we don't do X right now.

Calls us gullible.

Right.
Chrome warns this may be a phishing site. Well, Duh,... Stupid jerks can't even spell fishing right.
CaptainOriginal Crew3,431 postsSince 2019
Avenger
Avengernoreaster.com2021#48
I personally would like to see all this happen without tax subsidies, none of those companies would be investing without handouts from the government since they are not economically feasible on their own.
About 5 years ago Siemens, who is one of the largest manufacturers in the world was seriously looking at getting out of wind turbine manufacturing because it looked like government subsidies were going to dry up and they couldn't make them profitably without them. Probably still can't. What happens to all those supposed high-tech manufacturing jobs (which aren't coming here anyway) when the trough runs dry?
Chrome warns this may be a phishing site. Well, Duh,... Stupid jerks can't even spell fishing right.
CaptainOriginal Crew3,431 postsSince 2019
F
No I don't, because I can fill up my car in 5 minutes and drive almost 600 miles without stopping if I wanted to.
I'll take that as 'sure, I don't mind subsidizing the oil companies, but not the renewables'.

I can understand you being beholden to them, if you routinely need to take 600 mile trips in your car. Luckily, the vast majority of Americans don't have that problem.
MateOriginal Crew85 postsSince 2019
jpd
jpdMODnoreaster.com2021#50
I'll take that as 'sure, I don't mind subsidizing the oil companies, but not the renewables'.

I can understand you being beholden to them, if you routinely need to take 600 mile trips in your car. Luckily, the vast majority of Americans don't have that problem.

The truck drivers that supply almost everything we consume in this country don't have that problem?
A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns- Mario Puzo
CommodoreOriginal Crew9,876 postsSince 2018
F
I would love to keep this going but it's apparent there is no end @Fishing Nerd . There are so many questions you refuse to address ie: What effect will digging up the bottom do to the environment? What to do with decommissioning and how many will there be? To name just a few. And this is America, and I don't trust or care what other countries claim.

I get both sides, and some straight answers from officials would certainly help.
Wait, are you claiming you wanted to have an honest discussion and you're bringing up these two points?

Did I miss a memo somewhere - don't they have to do the same work and then some for offshore petroleum digging? Or are you suggesting we should put a moratorium on that?

You don't care about other countries? Congrats - that's the most Boomer thing I've heard today. That's what pissed away what should have been a multigenerational advantage in manufacturing, and what is sliding this country down the side of the mountain on a daily basis. Whether you like it or not, we're competing with the rest of the world. Our biggest existential threat long term is China. They're investing here, you're suggesting we should fall behind. Might as well just start teaching our kids how to speak Chinese.
MateOriginal Crew85 postsSince 2019
F
About 5 years ago Siemens, who is one of the largest manufacturers in the world was seriously looking at getting out of wind turbine manufacturing because it looked like government subsidies were going to dry up and they couldn't make them profitably without them. Probably still can't. What happens to all those supposed high-tech manufacturing jobs (which aren't coming here anyway) when the trough runs dry?
Do you have a source to quote here? I recall Siemens spinning off some of their wind manufacturing (for a tidy profit), but as recently as a few months ago I saw an article building a fairly large farm in the midwest somewhere.

Right now - these companies can't meet demand. Fearing the end of subsidies would be shortsighted to say the least.
MateOriginal Crew85 postsSince 2019
F
Parrots greenie mantra about world will end if we don't do X right now.

Calls us gullible.

Right.
Not gullible, ignorant. If you're stuck on 'they're trying to save the world' - you clearly don't understand what's at stake here.
MateOriginal Crew85 postsSince 2019
F
The truck drivers that supply almost everything we consume in this country don't have that problem?
I must have missed the part where the objective was to get truck drivers to immediately cease and desist driving their existing trucks.

I can imagine this is the crew that must have been bitching to no end when the phone company announced it was discontinuing dial telephones.
MateOriginal Crew85 postsSince 2019
jpd
jpdMODnoreaster.com2021#55

The truck drivers that supply almost everything we consume in this country don't have that problem?

Don't pretend you have all the answers

A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns- Mario Puzo
CommodoreOriginal Crew9,876 postsSince 2018
jpd
jpdMODnoreaster.com2021#56
On to Ignore you go - dial phones?
A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns- Mario Puzo
CommodoreOriginal Crew9,876 postsSince 2018
WhatKnot
WhatKnotFREE2021#58
1621476066114.webp
Be Safe
CommodoreOriginal Crew12,915 postsSince 2019
F
You were already on ignore JPD - I asked about subsidies, you made some completely pointless remark about fuel ranges?

This one is pretty simple - but it's obviously above a lot of pay grades here. You guys are stuck on 'those leftists are just a bunch of tax and spend tree huggers'. You've been programmed - not ironically, by a group that just left office with a $4T deficit and a ton of gaping holes in our infrastructure.

We've fallen behind the rest of the world here, and that gap would only grow without investment. The return on investment here is going to be far greater than whatever we got from the spending that brought us our current deficit. It's going to build up new industries, create new jobs, and develop tech that we can export to the rest of the world, helping to close an ever widening trade gap.

Continue to focus on 'tree hugging' all you like - it's not about that. It's about stabilizing and growing the country for future generations more than anything else, but just like anything else related to conservation, education, the economy - a vast swath of Americans really couldn't give a crap about future generations. It's no different than the bunch that scoop us short bass or garbage cans full of porgies they don't intend to eat, just applied to the economy and society as a whole.
MateOriginal Crew85 postsSince 2019
F
View attachment 33826

No trolling here, just not falling for ignorant groupthink. So far, the reasons presented to be against this are:

  • Impact to the environment - the impact from offshore drilling is far worse, and we've had environmental disasters related to spills multiple times over the past several decades
  • Cost of subsidies - we spend more in subsidy money on oil concerns, and that doesn't even touch the amount we spend on military actions and foreign aid trying to stabilize countries that are critical to oil
  • Feasibility - can't drive 600 miles in an electric car, so let's ditch the whole idea. As if the objective wasn't to develop these industries to get around some of their current limitations
I'd actually be embarrassed trying to bring these three points to a debate against renewables, but hey, if that's what the politicians tell you and you HAVE to listen to them, have at it. We all know they have your best interests in mind, right?
MateOriginal Crew85 postsSince 2019

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