This is 2021
The information is out there
no one is or should be uninformed
you’ll just have to accept the fact that there IS conflicting and truthful information on all sides of this debate
in life there are very very few irrefutable facts
In a free country people with free will , will and should make up their own minds
You’ll simple need to accept that
And you do you
doesn’t take anything more complicated than that
Such is life in a free society
Deal with it
They captain and crew of the Titanic didn't want to "alarm" anyone. Many died. Unprepared. Lesson learned
Guess what, the Covid iceberg hasn't moved!
And it never will move
The covid ice berg is here forever
The only question is how we will deal with it
And on that point there is much debate
you want your way
And feel it’s the way
not everyone agrees
What ya gonna do
Jail em
Shoot em
Not in this country
sad part even if you go down the road your on and fire them from their jobs
stupid liberals will just support them
what the deterrent in that
Zip
good luck
Regardless of veracity, [et's see how this plays out. If Berger remains true to his conviction, he'll resign instead of disobeying a direct order from the CnC, gaining my respect for his personal integrity, while confirming that his genome is composed of more than the normal amount of Neanderthal genes, which seems to be pretty common among "His Corp".
“No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country. - General George Patton”.
The President is a civilian and never has total control. Thought you were smarter then that. We learned after Patton caved to FDR and let the commies of Europe take Germany after Germany tried to surrender to The Americans. It caused hundreds of thousands to be murdered as well as millions of rapes by the Russians throughout Europe and that wasn’t German lives but mostly Poles. Patton was able to manipulate adversary armies to fight one another. Pretty slick as is Berger.
Remember you follow the science. Fauci said masks don’t work and the vaccine inventor said don’t take it as well as the FDA.
So Marines are Neanderthals? Does that mean scientists are all womanizers? You guys all quote Albert Einstein and he slept with everyone but his wife. You must be like him, no?
This is 2021
In a free country people with free will , will and should make up their own minds
You’ll simple need to accept that
And you do you
doesn’t take anything more complicated than that
Such is life in a free society
Deal with it
I have no problem with different opinions and you say you don't either. It's the insults you and ricky throw out that gets me going. I don't care what anyone else thinks or wants to do in their own circle. I also have known for a long long time not to even bother debating issues with certain people or change their minds even if I wanted to which I don't. And believe it or not that includes extreme left looneys....same chit different direction!!
happy Saturday!!!!
I’ll give u a pass I’m feeling magnanimous
Who IS SHE?
ya see...there ya go again!
[USER=127]@Rick67[/USER] for your personal education, I've attached a copy of the Constitution of the United States, along with the amendments. You must remember this, that little ditty that everyone in the armed services, and all sarcasm aside, Thank You for your service, takes an oath to defend.
I'd like you to pay attention to Article 2, Section 2:
[HEADING=1]Section 2[/HEADING]
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-stricken-oregon-deploys-national-222634659.html[/URL]
[USER=127]@Rick67[/USER] for your personal education, I've attached a copy of the Constitution of the United States, along with the amendments. You must remember this, that little ditty that everyone in the armed services, and all sarcasm aside, Thank You for your service, takes an oath to defend.
I'd like you to pay attention to Article 2, Section 2:
[HEADING=1]Section 2[/HEADING]
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
That’s good to know if ever someone is in need of a pardon but he isn’t the decision maker. He’s merely bares the burden of responsibility.
Do you think 44 had anything to do with Osama being killed. He was dying one way or another that night. The question was is it a parade photo or not. 45 got personal and pushed to get that same photo. No one complained. The guys loved him, he got things done, but he still wasn’t the reason Soleamini and Baghdadi were targeted, however he took responsibility and didn’t care who’s feelings got hurt. That’s called Covering My Six in a huge way. How many car bombings are you to believe? Just like any Board of Directors it’s a group with the man with the pen signing his name taking the fall if all goes bad, but you can keep believing what you just posted.
So if you believe that then you’ll believe I have “The Right Of The People To Bare Arms Shall Not Be Infringed” status. Well that sure as hell isn’t followed here in NY is it now.
[HEADING=2]Lockdowns, Masks, & The Illusion Of Government Control Over COVID[/HEADING]
BY TYLER DURDEN
SATURDAY, AUG 14, 2021 - 12:30 PM
[Authored by Brian McGlinchey via Stark Realities,]('https://starkrealities.substack.com/p/lockdowns-masks-and-the-illusion')
In the early 11th century, [King Canute]('https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-13524677')—while at the peak of his power—set out to demonstrate to his fawning courtiers the limited power of royal edicts. After having his throne placed by the sea’s edge, he sat down and commanded the tide to stop rising. When the water began washing over his feet, he declared, "Let all men know how empty and worthless is the power of kings."
Nearly a thousand years later, facing a different force of nature—Covid-19—an entire global generation of presidents, prime ministers, governors, mayors, public health officials, scientists and citizens is being given the same lesson. However, where Canute’s lesson sprang from his humility, this lesson springs from the hubris of the present-day ruling class and the credulity of the masses who place far too much faith in their rulers’ power.
[
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The lesson was pointedly driven home on July 19th. That was "[Freedom Day]('https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15629198/what-does-freedom-day-mean-coronavirus-uk/')" in the United Kingdom, with government ending restrictions on social contact, allowing the reopening of remaining establishments such as nightclubs, and abandoning mask mandates.
Two weeks before Freedom Day, as the Delta relentlessly pushed the UK’s case count higher, 122 prominent scientists and doctors submitted a letter to [The Lancet]('https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01589-0/fulltext') calling the planned easing of restrictions "a dangerous and unethical experiment."
On the eve of Freedom Day, the UK’s daily case count was over 40,000. Imperial College London mathematical biologist Neil Ferguson told the BBC it was "[almost inevitable]('https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/uk-covid-cases-could-hit-200000-a-day-says-neil-ferguson-scientist-behind-lockdown-strategy-england')" the end of restrictions would prompt daily cases to soar to 100,000 and perhaps even 200,000.
Mother Nature was about to deliver a harsh comeuppance to Ferguson and others who’d have us believe government restrictions and mask mandates offer a potent defense against Covid contagion: Cases promptly went into a two-week free fall.
[
Daily New Cases in the United Kingdom
]('
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In addition to fostering well-founded doubt about the benefits of lockdowns and face coverings, the turn of events should also cultivate healthy skepticism about the pronouncements of the public health establishment. Hopefully, Ferguson’s particular humiliation will immunize officials, journalists and citizens against trusting Imperial College London’s Covid-19 models.
Those models, which [played a key role]('https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/world/europe/coronavirus-imperial-college-johnson.html') in enabling unprecedented, draconian lockdowns around the world—have been [wildly wrong]('https://www.aier.org/article/simcity-style-modeling-flunks-the-real-world-test/') again and again. For example, Imperial College London projected Sweden’s relaxed approach to Covid-19 would leave nearly [100,000 Swedes dead]('https://fee.org/articles/sweden-s-actual-covid-19-results-compared-to-what-modelers-predicted-in-april/') by July 1, 2020. The actual count: 5,700.
The United States has endured its own false alarms about what will happen when government-imposed restrictions are eased. Grim predictions and [accusations]('https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/09/desantis-protest-bill-would-risk-lives-to-benefit-trump.html') of gubernatorial [indifference to human life]('https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/02/10/iowa-lift-all-restrictions/') accompanied the ending of restrictions and mandates in states like Iowa, Texas and Florida, and proved as wrong as the ones made in the UK last month.
Lacking Canute’s humility and undaunted by contrary evidence, the great majority of officials, scientists and pundits who’ve favored coercive government measures have proven stubbornly incapable of entertaining the possibility that these interventions—which have boosted [depression]('https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/the-implications-of-covid-19-for-mental-health-and-substance-use/'), [suicide]('https://www.aier.org/article/more-covid-suicides-than-covid-deaths-in-kids/'), [alcohol abuse]('https://nypost.com/2021/02/18/alarming-alcohol-abuse-rising-under-covid-19-lockdown-study/'), [drug overdoses]('https://www.axios.com/drug-overdose-record-coronavirus-pandemic-opioids-8657bd57-ab9a-4c1b-9666-76ed7254df55.html'), [domestic violence]('http://radiology/') and [undiagnosed cancer]('https://www.propublica.org/article/a-crisis-of-undiagnosed-cancers-is-emerging-in-the-pandemics-second-year')—aren’t a net positive for public health after all.
That resistance to contrary evidence extends to a great many everyday citizens whose unwavering support of lockdowns, business restrictions, remote schooling and mask mandates is part of a politicized tribal identity.
Exasperatingly, that tribe embraces "trust science" as a mantra, oblivious to the fact that the scientific method hinges on the reliable replication of results that supports one’s theory—something sorely lacking where lockdowns, masking and other measures are concerned.
[
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The "trust science" crowd is likewise oblivious to the fact that scientists are far from unanimous in supporting those government-imposed nonpharmaceutical interventions (NPIs), and that highly-credentialed scientists from esteemed institutions are among the most vigorous dissenters.
The most prominent demonstration of such dissent came with the October 2020 "[Great Barrington Declaration]('https://gbdeclaration.org/')." Led by professors from Harvard, Oxford and Stanford, epidemiologists and public health scientists from around the world expressed their "grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies."
The declaration has now been signed by more than [58,000]('https://gbdeclaration.org/view-signatures/') medical and public health scientists and medical practitioners. Their numbers and credentials don’t guarantee their views are correct; however, they do bely the presumption of a scientific consensus behind coercive mitigation policies. Among three original Stanford signatories to the declaration is biophysics professor and Nobel Prize recipient Michael Levitt. He and a group of Stanford and international scholars have been analyzing Covid-19 data [since]('https://med.stanford.edu/levitt.html') January 2020.
Referring to the steep drop in cases after UK restrictions were eased, Levitt recently [asked]('https://twitter.com/MLevitt_NP2013/status/1423455213218721797?s=20') the Twitter-verse: "Can anyone show clear correlation between NPI or other restrictions & reduced COVID-19 cases anywhere? I keep trying & failing. We really need to know this to deal better with future pandemics."
continued....
continued from above:
Levitt isn’t the only reputable scientist who sees little if any correlation between government-imposed NPIs and Covid-19 trajectories. "We’ve ascribed far too much human authority over the virus," said Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, in a recent interview with the [New York Times]('https://nl.nytimes.com/f/a/iUzQ8yqLkhDf15El3MqWWQ~~/AAAAAQA~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~~'). "These surges have little to do with what humans do. Only recently, with vaccines, have we begun to have a real impact."
"We had record high cases, hospitalizations and deaths in January, followed by a precipitous decline throughout February and into March…this does not reflect anything to do with…human mitigation. This is the natural ebb and flow of the virus we’ve seen time and again around the world," said Osterholm on his [Covid-19 podcast]('
').Perhaps because they’re bolted into place, the nation’s thicket of plexiglass dividers have shown more staying power, despite research indicating they may not only be futile,** but could actually be [making matters ]('https://reason.com/2021/05/27/plexiglass-barriers-are-everywhere-but-theyre-probably-useless/')[worse]('https://reason.com/2021/05/27/plexiglass-barriers-are-everywhere-but-theyre-probably-useless/') by thwarting ventilation**. In March, the CDC [withdrew]('https://cooper.ccsd21.org/news/updated-cdc-guidance-for-plexiglass-barriers') its recommendation for barriers on school desks, but has apparently stopped short of discouraging their broad use elsewhere.
Though it’s now socially acceptable to question the use of disinfectants and plexiglass, questioning masks can get you suspended from social media and tarred as a promoter of disinformation—even when you’re [citing]('https://www.paul.senate.gov/news/dr-rand-paul-blasts-youtube-continued-censorship') peer-reviewed [studies]('https://www.city-journal.org/do-masks-work-a-review-of-the-evidence'). However, with other widely-embraced mitigation measures fading in light of new data, intellectually honest people should be equally open to the question of whether widespread face-covering—particularly with anything other than an N-95 mask—is worthwhile.
That forbidden discussion is starting to creep into [mainstream]('https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks-provide-much-protection-we-think-bglhwy/') media. In a recent appearance [on CNN]('https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1422233651689967627?s=20'), the University of Minnesota’s Osterholm—a former Covid-19 advisor to President Biden—caused a [stir]('https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2021/08/06/psaki-rejects-top-scientists-facts-about-masks-n2593733') by saying, "We know today that many of the face cloth coverings that people wear are not very effective in reducing any of the virus movement in or out." That’s because Covid-19 particles are astoundingly small. Hard as it to imagine, the imperceptible gaps in surgical masks can be [1,000 times]('https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/17/cloth-face-masks-comfort-blankets-do-little-curb-covid-spread/') the size of a viral particle. Gaps in cloth masks are well larger than that.
Osterholman has [offered]('
') a highly relatable standard by which to judge if a particular face covering serves as a meaningful barrier against particles that small: "If you were in a room with somebody smoking, would you smell it in your device that you are using?" That standard not only eliminates cloth masks, but surgical ones too.Beyond the realities of nanoparticle science and the conclusions of previous [studies]('https://www.city-journal.org/do-masks-work-a-review-of-the-evidence'), the case for masking is undermined by what we’ve observed during the pandemic. Sweden, for example, never widely embraced masking. While its per capita Covid death count is well higher than neighboring Finland and Norway, it’s the [15th lowest]('https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/') out of the 31 European Union countries and the UK.
If face-covering were such an essential life-saving practice, Sweden wouldn’t be found in the middle of the EU pack. It would be dead last. That said, using Covid-19 death counts alone to evaluate outcomes is [problematic]('https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/excess-mortality-across-countries-in-2020/'). Different testing protocols can mean an individual would be positive in one country and negative in another. Jurisdictions also differ in what exactly comprises a Covid-19 death—was it a death from Covid or merely with Covid?
More importantly, though, when we solely focus on Covid-19 deaths, we ignore the suicides, fatal overdoses and other unintended deaths that result from the lockdowns themselves. That’s why it’s best to compare countries using excess all-cause mortality: total deaths beyond what’s expected in a normal year. By that measure, lockdown- and mask-eschewing Sweden had one of the best 2020 excess mortality rates in all of Europe—[23rd-lowest]('https://www.yahoo.com/gma/sweden-avoided-covid-19-lockdown-150100653.html') out of 30 countries.
(It again trailed Finland and Norway, but a [variety of factors]('https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=520006116096074011065098099068118005120037062046029025071067119071069113074070094005018107016026040058048091068091102111098127040072009047028108103115095117002122008077071121107116114112002086120095106102017100010111005018071066113124098126021077071&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE') undermine the idea they present a full-on apples-to-apples comparison; what’s more, by some measures, Finland and Norway had even [less stringent policies]('https://fee.org/articles/how-finland-and-norway-proved-sweden-s-approach-to-covid-19-works/') during the first several months of the pandemic.)
CDC is "Following the TV Pundits"
Vinay Prasad is an associate professor of medicine at the University of California San Francisco and co-author of [Ending Medical Reversal: Improving Outcomes, Saving Lives]('https://www.amazon.com/Ending-Medical-Reversal-Improving-Outcomes/dp/1421417723'). "Medical reversal" is what happens when new data shows a commonly-accepted practice is not helpful—or is actually harmful.
Decrying the lack of randomized trials backing many Covid-19 policies, Prasad recently [wrote]('https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/93803'), "When it comes to non-pharmacologic interventions such as mandatory business closures, mask mandates, and countless other interventions, the shocking conclusion of the last 18 months is this: We have learned next to nothing."
Referring to the CDC’s decision to once again recommend universal indoor masking in areas of higher Covid-19 transmission, Prasad wrote, "The CDC director calls this 'following the science,' but it is not. It is following the TV pundits."
While declaring his openness to the possibility that masking can be an effective public health intervention, Prasad says mandates should be driven by evidence—and that the CDC isn’t offering any.
Prasad, who [doesn’t]('https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/93976') shy away from endorsing coercive government action when he thinks it’s warranted, concludes:
"When the history books are written about the use of non-pharmacologic measures during this pandemic, we will look as pre-historic and barbaric and tribal as our ancestors during the plagues of the middle ages. What the books won't capture is how, in the moment, our experts were simply so sure of themselves."
*
[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-covid-19-deaths-top-201630827.html[/URL]
The Civil War, infamous for having the highest American death toll of any war in history, was the last major American conflict before the greater public understood how diseases spread. It was therefore the last war where the [bulk of the deaths]('https://www.jstor.org/stable/4450468?casa_token=CSxZ39BcFTQAAAAA%3A4jKlPl5FzBxZPI8FLMcQ187A_pKWWq3Z0Q6-aYpR0zhkR6Hwinc3OdSj5bcUpJZxXCWCZD_OQYzwJra8iT6qFv7-4O9fmVfWL6Dp7JwgZ6ji3wBc&seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents')—[two-thirds]('https://academic.oup.com/cid/article-abstract/16/4/580/413040'), in fact—were not from bullets and bombs, but from viruses, parasites and bacteria. Unfortunately, today’s COVID-19 death toll shows that many have approached the virus with a medical attitude hardly updated from 160 years ago.
=================
so it's surpassed both the number lost during the Civil War & the Second World War & we argue about masks & vaccines
Very, very sad............
[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-covid-19-deaths-top-201630827.html[/URL]
The Civil War, infamous for having the highest American death toll of any war in history, was the last major American conflict before the greater public understood how diseases spread. It was therefore the last war where the [bulk of the deaths]('https://www.jstor.org/stable/4450468?casa_token=CSxZ39BcFTQAAAAA%3A4jKlPl5FzBxZPI8FLMcQ187A_pKWWq3Z0Q6-aYpR0zhkR6Hwinc3OdSj5bcUpJZxXCWCZD_OQYzwJra8iT6qFv7-4O9fmVfWL6Dp7JwgZ6ji3wBc&seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents')—[two-thirds]('https://academic.oup.com/cid/article-abstract/16/4/580/413040'), in fact—were not from bullets and bombs, but from viruses, parasites and bacteria. Unfortunately, today’s COVID-19 death toll shows that many have approached the virus with a medical attitude hardly updated from 160 years ago.
=================
so it's surpassed both the number lost during the Civil War & the Second World War & we argue about masks & vaccines
Very, very sad............
For someone who wants this thread shut down you just cant seem to help your self from posting in it
We argue over effectiveness and we argue over the governments right to impose things upon us
mask don’t work .
Vaccines may , for a time but seemingly a very short time so now it’s going to be how often are u willing to get the jab
please do try to exxplain to me how I’ve not worn a mask unless forced which is very rarely and then never properly and never even improperly unless being diligently hounded by a stewardess
Don’t I have it or anti bodies for it
It’s been 18 months something isn’t right
As a rule I’m the guy that catch’s every cold or bug that comes down the pike and they all kick my butt
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